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sid_guardian2020-12-18 04:06 pm
thevetia) wrote in sid_guardian2020-12-18 04:06 pm
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Focus On Episode 14: Zhao Yunlan persuades Shen Wei to join SID
Episode 14 6:56 - 10:11, with a flashback fill-in at 21:24 - 22:18.
I love this scene and have gone over it many times examining the shifting roles and attitudes that Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan go through. I can only scratch the surface of all the layers of meaning conveyed in their body language.
After the dramatics of ep 13 and Shen Wei’s forced reveal as the Black Cloaked Envoy, this is their first private scene together.
Throughout the scene Zhao Yunlan continually changes his approach. He wants something from Shen Wei, but he doesn't know if he's talking to Professor Shen, the Black Cloaked Envoy, or just Shen Wei. He doesn’t know Shen Wei well enough to know what works, but he watches him closely to see what affects him.
They are in Shen Wei’s apartment, so we can assume this is at Shen Wei’s invitation. He pours “apology tea” for Zhao Yunlan, however Shen Wei hands it to him without looking at him, which both underlines the implicit apology and emphasizes Shen Wei’s uneasiness. Shen Wei is clearly anxious about what Zhao Yunlan is going to do with the knowledge of his identity.
Throughout the conversation both of them are constantly both expressing themselves and deflecting the other with their chosen comfort props, Zhao Yunlan with his lollipop and Shen Wei with his cup of tea.
Zhao Yunlan starts out with an implied apology for thinking the Envoy cold and heartless, ending with an attempt at commiseration: “Must be hard”. His attitude is both confident and patronizing.
Shen Wei stays locked down: I don’t understand. He hides behind his tea, stonewalling Zhao Yunlan as he has done before.
ZYL moves on to his interrogation mode, which he has also done with Shen Wei before, waving his lollipop at him and addressing him as Hei Lao Ge: "You can drop the act. Unless you can erase my memories..."
But here the conversation develops in a new direction, when Shen Wei does finally drop the act. His whole expression changes: he puts down the tea, relaxes, and leans forward: "Who told you I can’t?" He appears to be enjoying Zhao Yunlan’s discomfiture at this not very veiled threat.
Zhao Yunlan takes a long moment to realize all the implications of knowing that Professor Shen really is the Black Cloaked Envoy. You can see him change his attitude and direction of thought.
But Shen Wei doesn’t continue to be quietly threatening. He leans back and droops a little. “Let it be. To maintain my disgiuse I have to lie in many ways. I am tired.”
Now Zhao Yunlan leans forward as he formulates an apology for being disrespectful to the Black Cloaked Envoy. He’s almost placating, and adds a sweetener by reminding Shen Wei that he he called them friends.
But that has the effect of putting Shen Wei into a very serious reverie. And he says again, “We have always been friends,” which again throws Zhao Yunlan. “When did this start?”
They are both leaning towards each other.
Then we get the flashback to Shen Wei and “Kunlun” on the clifftop, illustrating the beginning of the friendship Shen Wei is thinking of. This implies that Shen Wei has by now made up his mind that Zhao Yunlan somehow is, or will be, Kunlun.
Back in the present, Shen Wei blinks, adjusts his glasses, and can’t answer Zhao Yunlan.
But since Shen Wei is being honest, Zhao Yunaln asks another question: Can you tell me why you are hiding your identity and helping me?
The fact that he asks shows that he hasn’t yet reconciled the two aspects of Shen Wei. Haixing citizen Shen was assumed to be helpful; Hei Pao Shi as a citizen of Dixing is an unknown.
Shen Wei looks alarmed. The more Zhao Yunlan asks about Shen Wei’s motives the more anxious Shen Wei appears. He grabs his tea and sips it almost continuously.
Zhao Yunlan accepts Shen Wei’s reticence. He says “I won’t push”, but then, almost as if he can’t help it, you can see the change in his eyes as he tries another tack. “I’m very upset” and he leans in even further as Shen Wei looks warily at him.
He wheedles, he tries to guilt Shen Wei, claiming he’s hurt that Shen Wei was blowing him off. It works. Shen Wei looks guilty and apprehensive. Zhao Yunlan leans in even further, “Promise me something.” Shen Wei swallows nervously.
The continuation of this scene is at 21:24, a flashback from the meeting in Minister Gao’s office. “How did he persuade you?”
(I have to comment on the completely gratuitous scene following of Zhao Yunlan waking up in bed. Coming right after he leers at Shen Wei and says “Promise me something,” what are we supposed to think???)
But regardless of the innuendo, we find that what Zhao Yunlan actually does is another tack.
He draws himself up to sit up straight and speaks quite formally, addressing Shen Wei as Professor Shen, Black Cloaked Envoy, Comrade, and then puts the cherry on top “for my sake”, and, for the third time, begs him to join SID.
It still doesn’t work.
Though it almost does because Shen Wei tries to get up and leave. Zhao Yunlan's hand on his arm stops him, but he shakes it off anyway. Touches are not welcome at this point and Zhao Yunlan doesn’t push it.
“Just joking”
Shen Wei's breathing quickens from whatever emotion he is feeling.
But Zhao Yunlun’s last attempt is when he states his belief that they should work together.
“As long as we work together we can protect the stability and peace of the present.” His expression is different here, he's being sincere and speaking from the heart.
And this seems to be the argument that convinces Shen Wei: to join with SID for the good of others.
And Zhao Yunlan knows it.
But there still seems to be a bit of ambiguity about what Shen Wei is thinking.
I love this scene for the shifting roles and reactions that both of them go through. They are both off balance with each other and trying to figure out how the identity reveal changes their relationship. Shen Wei is no longer able, or indeed willing, to completely stonewall Zhao Yunlan. Zhao Yunlan’s default flirty casualness backfires on him. Shen Wei is worried throughout, but trying to be as honest as possible. Zhao Yunlan is trying hard for sincerity, but since he wants answers he also can’t help trying to manipulate Shen Wei.
I’m sure there are lots of other ways to interpret all the subtleties of characterization that Bai Yu and Zhu Yilong put into this scene!
Questions:
1. Why does Zhao Yunlan want Shen Wei to officially join SID? What’s wrong with being an on-call unofficial consultant?
2. Why doesn’t Shen Wei want to join SID? I can’t really divorce this scene from the rest of ep 14, especially the drive to Haixing Inspectorate.
3. Why is Shen Wei so apprehensive in this scene?
4. Why is it the last appeal that works? Shen Wei won’t join SID for friendship, he won’t join for guilt, he won’t even do it for the sake of Zhao Yunlan’s puppy eyes.
5. Why can’t Shen Wei tell Zhao Yunlan why he’s helping him?
6. How conscious is Zhao Yunlan in his manipulations? Is it just the detective in him? He’s not subtle here: what is Shen Wei thinking, comparing him to Kunlun?
So, come and have your say! Share links to meta, picspams, and related fanworks, new or old! Self-recs are wholeheartedly encouraged. Basically, this is the place for anything you want to say or link to about this scene.
I love this scene and have gone over it many times examining the shifting roles and attitudes that Shen Wei and Zhao Yunlan go through. I can only scratch the surface of all the layers of meaning conveyed in their body language.
After the dramatics of ep 13 and Shen Wei’s forced reveal as the Black Cloaked Envoy, this is their first private scene together.
Throughout the scene Zhao Yunlan continually changes his approach. He wants something from Shen Wei, but he doesn't know if he's talking to Professor Shen, the Black Cloaked Envoy, or just Shen Wei. He doesn’t know Shen Wei well enough to know what works, but he watches him closely to see what affects him.
They are in Shen Wei’s apartment, so we can assume this is at Shen Wei’s invitation. He pours “apology tea” for Zhao Yunlan, however Shen Wei hands it to him without looking at him, which both underlines the implicit apology and emphasizes Shen Wei’s uneasiness. Shen Wei is clearly anxious about what Zhao Yunlan is going to do with the knowledge of his identity.
Throughout the conversation both of them are constantly both expressing themselves and deflecting the other with their chosen comfort props, Zhao Yunlan with his lollipop and Shen Wei with his cup of tea.
Zhao Yunlan starts out with an implied apology for thinking the Envoy cold and heartless, ending with an attempt at commiseration: “Must be hard”. His attitude is both confident and patronizing.
Shen Wei stays locked down: I don’t understand. He hides behind his tea, stonewalling Zhao Yunlan as he has done before.
ZYL moves on to his interrogation mode, which he has also done with Shen Wei before, waving his lollipop at him and addressing him as Hei Lao Ge: "You can drop the act. Unless you can erase my memories..."
But here the conversation develops in a new direction, when Shen Wei does finally drop the act. His whole expression changes: he puts down the tea, relaxes, and leans forward: "Who told you I can’t?" He appears to be enjoying Zhao Yunlan’s discomfiture at this not very veiled threat.
Zhao Yunlan takes a long moment to realize all the implications of knowing that Professor Shen really is the Black Cloaked Envoy. You can see him change his attitude and direction of thought.
But Shen Wei doesn’t continue to be quietly threatening. He leans back and droops a little. “Let it be. To maintain my disgiuse I have to lie in many ways. I am tired.”
Now Zhao Yunlan leans forward as he formulates an apology for being disrespectful to the Black Cloaked Envoy. He’s almost placating, and adds a sweetener by reminding Shen Wei that he he called them friends.
But that has the effect of putting Shen Wei into a very serious reverie. And he says again, “We have always been friends,” which again throws Zhao Yunlan. “When did this start?”
They are both leaning towards each other.
Then we get the flashback to Shen Wei and “Kunlun” on the clifftop, illustrating the beginning of the friendship Shen Wei is thinking of. This implies that Shen Wei has by now made up his mind that Zhao Yunlan somehow is, or will be, Kunlun.
Back in the present, Shen Wei blinks, adjusts his glasses, and can’t answer Zhao Yunlan.
But since Shen Wei is being honest, Zhao Yunaln asks another question: Can you tell me why you are hiding your identity and helping me?
The fact that he asks shows that he hasn’t yet reconciled the two aspects of Shen Wei. Haixing citizen Shen was assumed to be helpful; Hei Pao Shi as a citizen of Dixing is an unknown.
Shen Wei looks alarmed. The more Zhao Yunlan asks about Shen Wei’s motives the more anxious Shen Wei appears. He grabs his tea and sips it almost continuously.
Zhao Yunlan accepts Shen Wei’s reticence. He says “I won’t push”, but then, almost as if he can’t help it, you can see the change in his eyes as he tries another tack. “I’m very upset” and he leans in even further as Shen Wei looks warily at him.
He wheedles, he tries to guilt Shen Wei, claiming he’s hurt that Shen Wei was blowing him off. It works. Shen Wei looks guilty and apprehensive. Zhao Yunlan leans in even further, “Promise me something.” Shen Wei swallows nervously.
The continuation of this scene is at 21:24, a flashback from the meeting in Minister Gao’s office. “How did he persuade you?”
(I have to comment on the completely gratuitous scene following of Zhao Yunlan waking up in bed. Coming right after he leers at Shen Wei and says “Promise me something,” what are we supposed to think???)
But regardless of the innuendo, we find that what Zhao Yunlan actually does is another tack.
He draws himself up to sit up straight and speaks quite formally, addressing Shen Wei as Professor Shen, Black Cloaked Envoy, Comrade, and then puts the cherry on top “for my sake”, and, for the third time, begs him to join SID.
It still doesn’t work.
Though it almost does because Shen Wei tries to get up and leave. Zhao Yunlan's hand on his arm stops him, but he shakes it off anyway. Touches are not welcome at this point and Zhao Yunlan doesn’t push it.
“Just joking”
Shen Wei's breathing quickens from whatever emotion he is feeling.
But Zhao Yunlun’s last attempt is when he states his belief that they should work together.
“As long as we work together we can protect the stability and peace of the present.” His expression is different here, he's being sincere and speaking from the heart.
And this seems to be the argument that convinces Shen Wei: to join with SID for the good of others.
And Zhao Yunlan knows it.
But there still seems to be a bit of ambiguity about what Shen Wei is thinking.
I love this scene for the shifting roles and reactions that both of them go through. They are both off balance with each other and trying to figure out how the identity reveal changes their relationship. Shen Wei is no longer able, or indeed willing, to completely stonewall Zhao Yunlan. Zhao Yunlan’s default flirty casualness backfires on him. Shen Wei is worried throughout, but trying to be as honest as possible. Zhao Yunlan is trying hard for sincerity, but since he wants answers he also can’t help trying to manipulate Shen Wei.
I’m sure there are lots of other ways to interpret all the subtleties of characterization that Bai Yu and Zhu Yilong put into this scene!
Questions:
1. Why does Zhao Yunlan want Shen Wei to officially join SID? What’s wrong with being an on-call unofficial consultant?
2. Why doesn’t Shen Wei want to join SID? I can’t really divorce this scene from the rest of ep 14, especially the drive to Haixing Inspectorate.
3. Why is Shen Wei so apprehensive in this scene?
4. Why is it the last appeal that works? Shen Wei won’t join SID for friendship, he won’t join for guilt, he won’t even do it for the sake of Zhao Yunlan’s puppy eyes.
5. Why can’t Shen Wei tell Zhao Yunlan why he’s helping him?
6. How conscious is Zhao Yunlan in his manipulations? Is it just the detective in him? He’s not subtle here: what is Shen Wei thinking, comparing him to Kunlun?
So, come and have your say! Share links to meta, picspams, and related fanworks, new or old! Self-recs are wholeheartedly encouraged. Basically, this is the place for anything you want to say or link to about this scene.
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1. Why does Zhao Yunlan want Shen Wei to officially join SID? What’s wrong with being an on-call unofficial consultant?
This is a great question. It's puzzling, because, as you say, he's already doing the job, just unofficially.
Because this scene bookends the one with Minister Gao, I'd like to believe that Zhao Yunlan is actually trying to protect Shen Wei by giving him an official role at the SID. Since he knows Shen Wei is the Black-Cloaked Envoy, this is a way to specifically protect Shen Wei's Haixing identity. If Professor Shen is a consultant with the SID, then he's much less suspicious if, say, he knocks out a bunch of wedding guests to stop them killing each other.
2. Why doesn’t Shen Wei want to join SID? I can’t really divorce this scene from the rest of ep 14, especially the drive to Haixing Inspectorate.
The poor man already has two jobs.
To answer more seriously, I think you're right to bring up the drive. Shen Wei pretty much says he would stay away were it not for the Hallows, and that's what he did before the events in canon. The SID's mandate is basically anti-Dixingren, so I can't imagine that he's thrilled getting further involved with them. Involvement with Zhao Yunlan is another matter entirely, though.
3. Why is Shen Wei so apprehensive in this scene?
He put so much effort in keeping his identity hidden, even if he wasn't particularly good at it. I believe his reasons were at least partially based in fear--fear of what Zhao Yunlan would think, fear that he'd put him in danger, fear of how he could influence the timeline. Now he's faced with the thing he was trying to avoid happening. He's uncertain, and lost in time and memories. Which does not stop him going, "Who says I can't erase your memories?" to Zhao Yunlan, and I love him for it.
4. Why is it the last appeal that works? Shen Wei won’t join SID for friendship, he won’t join for guilt, he won’t even do it for the sake of Zhao Yunlan’s puppy eyes.
I think it's frustrating for Shen Wei to be confronted with all the jokey entreaties and the playful flirting now, just after one of the barriers between them was broken. Zhao Yunlan knows he's the Black-Cloaked Envoy, but they're not really any closer. From Shen Wei's perspective, I think Zhao Yunlan appears insincere, or at least not as invested as Shen Wei. The request that eventually works is the one that does not call on any existing personal connection between the two of them.
5. Why can’t Shen Wei tell Zhao Yunlan why he’s helping him?
I'd say this is completely due to time-travelling shenanigans. The reasons why Shen Wei was keeping things from Zhao Yunlan haven't gone away with the BCE reveal.
6. How conscious is Zhao Yunlan in his manipulations? Is it just the detective in him? He’s not subtle here: what is Shen Wei thinking, comparing him to Kunlun?
He's very deliberately testing the waters, in my opinion. He's probing to see what aspects of his previous connection with Shen Wei, both as Professor Shen and as the Black-Cloaked Envoy, were real. They're constructing a new dynamic, and this is how Zhao Yunlan is making sense of it. And Shen Wei is making the same adjustments, I think, while also being hit with his memories of Kunlun, so he has to adjust not only to Zhao Yunlan knowing about the BCE, but to him still not being Kunlun. Of course, the difference is not in Zhao Yunlan, but in their level of intimacy. However, like I already mentioned, on some level, it must be disappointing that the reveal did not change more in their relationship.
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Zhao Yunlan starts out with an implied apology for thinking the Envoy cold and heartless, ending with an attempt at commiseration: “Must be hard”. His attitude is both confident and patronizing.
Hmmm, interesting! I wouldn't have called it patronizing. I think I see what you're getting at, though. But for me, it feels like Zhao Yunlan is smug about knowing Shen Wei's secret identity, but I don't get that he's being condescending about it. I guess there could be a tinge of feeling temporarily superior to Shen Wei in having found out his identity. But I don't feel that he's being condescending or patronizing about Shen Wei being the Black-Cloaked Envoy.
For question 4, I think it's hard for Shen Wei to turn his back on an appeal "for the greater good," and peace and stability were what he wanted in ancient Haixing. I don't think that's changed for him: a peaceful, stable world is the goal. And Zhao Yunlan finally moving beyond the personal, "do it for me" appeals may be the closest Zhao Yunlan has come to being Kunlun (so far), at least in this scene. Mentioning "as long as we work together" harkens back to Kunlun telling Shen Wei he doesn't have to take the step alone, he has Kunlun.
Question 6: really interesting questions! I wonder if Zhao Yunlan starts with personal appeals because he hopes the secret identity was the only personal barrier between them. He wants Shen Wei and himself to be closer. He knows Shen Wei keeping secrets has been a barrier between them, and it would be easy to assume the secret identity is the biggest secret/barrier. Which, of course, it isn't!
I don't know if we see enough of Zhao Yunlan's interrogation techniques to know if the way he switches tactics is just the detective in him. Shen Wei is the most unforthcoming of the people we see him question... Or the difference is that Zhao Yunlan isn't willing to leave without an answer/promise this time.
For what Shen Wei is thinking, comparing Zhao Yunlan to Kunlun... It's easy for me to imagine some really sad thoughts here! But another way of looking at it is that I like to imagine Shen Wei getting to know the man he fell in love with. That there are aspects to Zhao Yunlan Shen Wei didn't expect, perhaps, but they complete the picture.
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I think this scene starts with Shen Wei having a lot of feelings about Zhao Yunlan's putting himself in harm's way and doing so partly to make Shen Wei reveal himself. (Though I agree with whoever said in the discussion about the reveal that ZYL was retconning his actions somewhat when he said that was the reason he'd pretended to be mind-controlled.) Shen Wei has made it perfectly clear that he doesn't want to talk about being the Envoy, that he can't confirm it, and Zhao Yunlan just rode right past that and forced the issue. So I don't know that I'd characterise this as apology tea? I suspect they got to the hallway between their apartments, and Zhao Yunlan said, "We should talk," and Shen Wei said, "I'll make tea." And they ended up at Shen Wei's place so he wouldn't have to cede any more ground than he already has. He's not feeling particularly conciliatory, to my mind.
I think he's also recalculating what he has to reveal vs what he can keep secret, now that Zhao Yunlan knows his full identity. And maybe, despite himself, he's secretly hoping that Zhao Yunlan's knowing his identity will make Zhao Yunlan behave more like Kunlun. He might be really missing that dynamic with (kind, supportive) Kunlun right now.
Meanwhile, Zhao Yunlan is feeling extremely smug and doing a bad job of hiding it. I don't really read it as patronising, but I do think he's gloating.
Anyway, I'll come back later and blather some more, but I thought I'd just jump in with this now while I was thinking about it.
Oh, and some related works:
I have two fics inspired by this scene: Getting to Know You starts here and plays with the idea that Shen Wei can -- and does -- wipe Zhao Yunlan's memories. And every day closer is set after the team dinner, but deals with Shen Wei's emotional response to the events in this scene.
Also, there's
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